I’ve tried this, got a few bags of one ketone salts bound to mostly potassium and another one bound to calcium. As for working out, I find that consuming 15-20 grams of glucose ( dextrose ) 30 minutes before either a HIIT or a heavy lifting session gives me a much, much bigger boost than ketones. so they just sit in my cupboard. I also got spooked about the amount of potassium i’d consume in one go ( don’t particularly fancy a cardiac arrest ). I find it a bit useful when I have a big meeting or something else that requires super concentration and I’m fasting, other than that – it’s pretty useless. I’d probably use more of it if I could find a formula that’s mostly sodium/magnesium based rather than potassium and/or calcium.
BHB supplementation can drastically enhance your insulin sensitivity, resulting in better shuttling of blood glucose into cells.[10] With type-2 diabetes and insulin resistance becoming growing concerns, BHB supplementation may provide a promising alternative for healthy blood glucose regulation in the coming years.Even for everyday gym goers and fitness enthusiasts, increasing insulin sensitivity via BHB supplementation can be a great benefit as this puts your body in a better position for partitioning nutrients/carbohydrates to energetically demanding, glycolytic tissues, such as skeletal muscle.

While exogenous ketones (EK) are a newer supplement, having entered the market for consumers in just the past few years, scientists have been synthesizing ketone bodies in a lab since the 1960’s. They were useful for scientists studying their use for specific disease conditions, most notably childhood seizure disorders, though they were prohibitively expensive for consumers (1, 2).
I’m already following a ketogenic diet and have been fat adapted for about 3 months. Since I’m already in ketosis would this product help me or hinder my fat loss? My thought is that if I’m already in a fat burning state and then I take exogenous ketones does my body stop burning my fat to burn the ingested ketones like taking a break or does the product enhance the fat burning that is already taking place?
KE consumption decreased FFA from 0.6 to 0.2 mM, TG from 1.0 to 0.8 mM, and glucose from 5.5 to 4.7 mM by the end of the study (4 h). The effect was not altered by a meal (Figures 5A–C). Dextrose drinks also lowered FFA from 0.6 to 0.2 mM and TG from 1.0 to 0.7 mM (Figures 5A, B). This was likely mediated by the transient increase in glucose, which rose from 4.6 to 6.5 mM following the dextrose drink (Figure ​(Figure5C).5C). The anti-lypoytic effect of dextrose drinks was shorter than that of KE drinks as d-βHB concentrations were elevated for longer after KE drinks than glucose after dextrose drinks. Insulin increased to ~ 35 mU.ml−1 after both the meal and the dextrose drink, but also increased to 13 ± 2 mU.ml−1 when KE was consumed whilst fasted owing to the 15 g of glucose in the flavored drink used as a diluent (Figure ​(Figure5D5D).
The way you make an exogenous BHB is by attaching it to some type of other compound (sodium, potassium, calcium, or magnesium) so that your body can process the molecule by cleaving the bond between the salt and the beta hydroxybutyrate. BHB + bound to a salt = BHB salts, which is what most people in the ketosis community call exogenous ketones. There are also things called esters, which are basically unbound BHB molecules. These are really disgusting and cause massive digestive issues, so I like to ignore them until we can produce them in a more appealing way.
The ketone supplements were associated with a 5.4% decrease in physical performance while the artificially-sweetened, non-caffeinated beverage I used as a placebo was associated with a 20.3% increase: a big difference in favour of the placebo. Before you go rushing out to buy some, remember that this experiment was not performed under fully-controlled, laboratory conditions, and we were working with too small a group to prove that the placebo caused an increase in physical performance. But what we can say is that we couldn’t find any correlation between ketone supplements and an increase in physical performance in this experiment. According to Brianna Stubbs, some of the work currently being done on new kinds of ketone salts is starting to show more promise in relation to physical performance, so there may be better news on this down the line.
Getting enough sleep not only helps in the production of growth hormones vital for muscle growth, but it plays a particular role as already discussed. If you’re intermittently fasting then sleep is crucial is helping you sustain the fast. 6-10 hours of your day will be dedicated to sleep, helping you to reboot and not think about food during this time. That means less time for you to actually be fasting! Stress is another factor – if we don’t get enough sleep, we’ll tend to feel more stress and agitation throughout the day. Ensuring that we’re well rested plays a huge part in keeping down cortisol levels so that are insulin and blood sugar levels don’t spike.
Relationship between blood ketone and glucose levels: a BMS + MCT (5 g/kg) supplemented rats demonstrated a significant inverse relationship between elevated blood ketone levels and decreased blood ketone levels (r2 = 0.4314, p = 0.0203). b At week 4, BMS + MCT (10 g/kg) and MCT (10 g/kg) showed a significant correlation between blood ketone levels and blood glucose levels (r2 = 0.8619, p < 0.0001; r2 = 0.6365, p = 0.0057). Linear regression analysis, results considered significant if p < 0.05

Fasting blood samples were collected prior to all interventions. Following consumption of study drinks (details below), blood, expired gas and urine samples were collected at regular intervals for 4 h. Water was freely permitted and participants remained sedentary at the test facility throughout the visit. A subset of participants returned for samples 8 and 24 h after the ketone drinks (Study 1).

Every 7 days, animals were briefly fasted (4 h, water available) prior to intragastric gavage to standardize levels of blood metabolites prior to glucose and βHB measurements at baseline. Baseline (time 0) was immediately prior to gavage. Whole blood samples (10 μL) were taken from the saphenous vein for analysis of glucose and βHB levels with the commercially available glucose and ketone monitoring system Precision Xtra™ (Abbott Laboratories, Abbott Park, IL). Blood glucose and βHB were measured at 0, 0.5, 1, 4, 8, and 12 h after test substance administration, or until βHB returned to baseline levels. Food was returned to animals after blood analysis at time 0 and gavage. At baseline and week 4, whole blood samples (10 μL) were taken from the saphenous vein immediately prior to gavage (time 0) for analysis of total cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL), and triglycerides with the commercially available CardioChek™ blood lipid analyzer (Polymer Technology Systems, Inc., Indianapolis, IN). Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol was calculated from the three measured lipid levels using the Friedewald equation: (LDL Cholesterol = Total Cholesterol - HDL - (Triglycerides/5)) [51, 52]. Animals were weighed once per week to track changes in body weight associated with hyperketonemia.
BS, KC, and PC designed the research studies. BS, PC, RE, SM, and PS carried out the studies. SH provided the gas analyser used in the study on behalf of NTT DOCOMO Inc. BS, MS, and SM analyzed the data and performed statistical analysis in collaboration with JM. BS wrote the paper with help from KC, PC, and OF. KC had primary responsibility for final content. All authors read and approved the final manuscript.
Currently, we lack enough evidence to change the recommendations for calcium intake. The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for adults 19-50 years old is 2500 mg. This is well over the RDA of 1000 mg for the same age group. Calcium supplements commonly contain 600-1200 mg. When assessing your own calcium intake, keep in mind that calcium from food sources and calcium from supplements may have different outcomes.

More tolerable than MCT oil: MCT oil has been known to cause gastrointestinal distress in users, especially when taken in higher amounts. Exogenous ketones in the form of ketone salts, in comparison, are well-tolerated. Thus they enable one to avoid adverse GI events while providing the body with similar types of benefits. Figure 2 shows Ketone esters can be effective at reducing appetite. A combination of MCT oil and exogenous ketones may aid weight loss and allow a lower loading of ketone supplements, without the GI distress seen with MCT oil.
Exercise or performing an extensive workout during the day is a perfect way to burn all those glycogen reserves in your body. Performing a HIIT or High Intensity Interval Training is a perfect type of exercise to do this. So, the next morning when you are awake, get set on an intense exercise session (remember, in the morning, not the afternoon). This will keep the cortisol level lowered during the evening when you wish to have some rest.

As KE drinks achieved a significantly higher d-βHB concentrations than KS, we investigated factors that may be important in the use of ketone drinks to achieve nutritional ketosis. Initially we determined the repeatability of blood ketosis following KE drinks and found little variation in kinetic parameters between individuals. Variability between participants was less than within the population, and accurate individual prediction of the d-βHB Cmax following a body-weight adjusted KE drink was achieved. Variability within individuals was likely due to normal daily changes in GI function, including gastric emptying, portal blood flow or intestinal transit time, which may alter KE hydrolysis and absorption.

KE was synthesized as previously described [29]. BMS is a novel agent (sodium/potassium- βHB mineral salt) supplied as a 50 % solution containing approximately 375 mg/g of pure βHB and 125 mg/g of sodium/potassium. Both KE and BMS were developed and synthesized in collaboration with Savind Inc. Pharmaceutical grade MCT oil (~65 % caprylic triglyceride; 45 % capric triglyceride) was purchased from Now Foods (Bloomingdale, IL). BMS was formulated in a 1:1 ratio with MCT at the University of South Florida (USF), yielding a final mixture of 25 % water, 25 % pure βHB mineral salt and 50 % MCT. BD was purchased from Sigma-Aldrich (Prod # B84785, Milwaukee, WI).
Whereas ketone esters are 100% D- form, most ketone salts are a 50/50 mix of left and right-handed beta hydroxybutyrate, which is known as a racemic mixture. These beta hydroxybutyrate molecules are linked to a mineral, such sodium (Na), calcium (Ca), potassium (K), or magnesium (Mg). This kind of ketone supplement gets broken down to left and right-handed version of beta hydroxybutyrate along with the mineral.
Follow our simple tips to get into ketosis and speed up the process. Our tips are scientifically-proven to work and are completely safe for everyone. If you need more guidance to achieve ketosis safely and effectively, enroll in our free Ketocademy course. The course will teach you everything there is to know about entering ketosis in less than 3 hours. Try it out today!
So by taking in the perfect keto base, which are the exogenous ketones (BHB). This will easily put my body into ketosis rather than having to do the ketosis diet? I cant make up my mind on whether to buy the ketone powder and/or the MCT oil powder. What is the benefit of the MCT oil powder? When i read about it on the perfectketo website, it sounds like it does the same job as the perfect keto base. I’m also curious about the bone broths others sell for ketose related stuff. Is it very benedficial even when it has about 600mg of sodium in it?
Great question. So if you are already in nutritional ketosis from your diet, exogenous ketones would still help raise ketone (energy) levels when you want that (maybe for focus at work or energy at the gym. They also help get you back into ketosis after cheat meals and skip the “keto flu” which is the period when your body is using up stored glycogen.
Serial drinks or a continuous NG infusion of KE effectively kept blood ketone concentrations >1 mM for 9 h (Figure ​(Figure6).6). With drinks every 3 h, blood d-βHB rose and then fell, but had not returned to baseline (~ 0.1 mM) when the next drink was consumed. There was no significant difference in d-βHB Cmax between drinks 2 and 3 (3.4 ± 0.2 mM vs. 3.8 ± 0.2 mM p = 0.3), as the rate of d-βHB appearance fell slightly with successive drinks (0.07 ± 0.01 mmol.min−1 and 0.06 ± 0.01 mmol.min−1 p = 0.6). d-βHB elimination was the same after each bolus (142 ± 37 mmol.min, 127 ± 45 mmol.min; and 122 ± 54 mmol.min). When KE was given via a nasogastric tube, the initial bolus raised blood d-βHB to 2.9 ± 0.5 mM after 1 h, thereafter continuous infusion maintained blood d-βHB between 2–3 mM. Total d-βHB appearance in the blood was identical for both methods of administration (Serial drinks AUC: 1,394 ± 64 mmol.min; NG infusion AUC: 1,305 ± 143 mmol.min. p = 0.6).
In a nutshell… WOW! The chart above shows each of the games/categories I played, showing my prior 5-day averages compared to the day I took the ketone esters. Compared to my baselines, my scores increased across the board, with the biggest improvements in spatial orientation (+32.2%), working memory (+23.7%), quantitative reasoning (21.5%), task switching (+14.9%), and information processing (+14.9%). Below are more detailed comparisons:
Beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) is a ketone body produced in the liver naturally under conditions when glucose isn’t very available. Other types of ketones produced via the restriction of dietary carbohydrates are acetoacetate and acetone. A VLCHF or ketogenic diet provides the optimal conditions for this process. Fasting, exercise and/or basic caloric restriction are all also methods for promoting ketogenesis (literally, the making of ketones).
That’s not to say that the supplements don’t work. They very well might. But they could also be useless—or even dangerous, says Christine Palumbo, RDN, Nominating Committee member for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. As of right now, there’s no way to know. “Currently, there’s just not enough evidence from research studies to answer those questions,” Barnes adds.

We will go deep in the science behind this fascinating diet and then review some of the best exogenous ketone supplements out there in the market. Because without the knowledge and the right information about exogenous ketones that you can properly follow, you might never reach your goals and you may as well keep eating that mashed potato for dinner and club sandwich for lunch.


Whereas ketone esters are 100% D- form, most ketone salts are a 50/50 mix of left and right-handed beta hydroxybutyrate, which is known as a racemic mixture. These beta hydroxybutyrate molecules are linked to a mineral, such sodium (Na), calcium (Ca), potassium (K), or magnesium (Mg). This kind of ketone supplement gets broken down to left and right-handed version of beta hydroxybutyrate along with the mineral.

Before the Nobel Prize was awarded to Yoshinori Ohsumi, other researchers were making groundbreaking discoveries about autophagy. In 2009, an article was published in Cell Metabolism entitled Autophagy Is Required to Maintain Muscle Mass. In this article, researchers described how deactivating an important autophagy gene resulted in a profound loss in muscle mass and strength.

Ketone supplementation did not affect the size of the brain, lungs, kidneys or heart of rats. As previously mentioned, the rats were still growing during the experimental time frame; therefore, organ weights were normalized to body weight to determine if organ weight changed independently to growth. There could be several reasons why ketones influenced liver and spleen weight. The ratio of liver to body weight was significantly higher in the MCT supplemented animals (Fig. 5). MCTs are readily absorbed in the intestinal lumen and transported directly to the liver via hepatic portal circulation. When given a large bolus, such as in this study, the amount of MCTs in the liver will likely exceed the β-oxidation rate, causing the MCTs to be deposited in the liver as fat droplets [94]. The accumulated MCT droplets in the liver could explain the higher liver weight to body weight percentage observed with MCT supplemented rats. Future toxicology and histological studies will be needed to determine the cause of the observed hepatomegaly. It should be emphasized that the dose in this study is not optimized in humans. We speculate that an optimized human dose would be lower and may not cause hepatomegaly or potential fat accumulation. Nutritional ketosis achieved with the KD has been shown to decrease inflammatory markers such as TNF-α, IL-6, IL-8, MCP-1, E-selectin, I-CAM, and PAI-1 [8, 46], which may account for the observed decrease in spleen weight. As previously mentioned, Veech and colleagues demonstrated that exogenous supplementation of 5 mM βHB resulted in a 28 % increase in hydraulic work in the working perfused rat heart and a significant decrease in oxygen consumption [28, 41, 42]. Ketone bodies have been shown to increase cerebral blood flow and perfusion [95]. Also, ketone bodies have been shown to increase ATP synthesis and enhance the efficiency of ATP production [14, 28, 40]. It is possible that sustained ketosis results in enhanced cardiac efficiency and O2 consumption. Even though the size of the heart did not change for any of the ketone supplements, further analysis of tissues harvested from the ketone-supplemented rats will be needed to determine any morphological changes and to understand changes in organ size. It should be noted that the Harlan standard rodent chow 2018 is nutritionally complete and formulated with high-quality ingredients to optimize gestation, lactation, growth, and overall health of the animals. The same cannot be said for the standard American diet (SAD). Therefore, we plan to investigate the effects of ketone supplements administered with the SAD to determine if similar effects will be seen when the micronutrient deficiencies and macronutrient profile mimics what most Americans consume.
Animal procedures were performed in accordance with the University of South Florida Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC) guidelines (Protocol #0006R). Juvenile male Sprague–Dawley rats (275–325 g, Harlan Laboratories) were randomly assigned to one of six study groups: control (water, n = 11), BD (n = 11), KE (n = 11), MCT (n = 10), BMS (n = 11), or BMS + MCT (n = 12). Caloric density of standard rodent chow and dose of ketone supplements are listed in Table 1. On days 1–14, rats received a 5 g/kg body weight dose of their respective treatments via intragastric gavage. Dosage was increased to 10 g/kg body weight for the second half of the study (days 15–28) for all groups except BD and KE to prevent excessive hyperketonemia (ketoacidosis). Each daily dose of BMS would equal ~1000–1500 mg of βHB, depending on the weight of the animal. Intragastric gavage was performed at the same time daily, and animals had ad libitum access to standard rodent chow 2018 (Harlan Teklad) for the duration of the study. The macronutrient ratio the standard rodent chow was 62.2, 23.8 and 14 % of carbohydrates, protein and fat respectively.
LDL is the lipoprotein particle that is most often associated with atherosclerosis. LDL particles exist in different sizes: large molecules (Pattern A) or small molecules (Pattern B). Recent studies have investigated the importance of LDL-particle type and size rather than total concentration as being the source for cardiovascular risk [56]. Patients whose LDL particles are predominantly small and dense (Pattern B) have a greater risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). It is thought that small, dense LDL particles are more able to penetrate the endothelium and cause in damage and inflammation [82–85]. Volek et al. reported that the KD increased the pattern and volume of LDL particles, which is considered to reduce cardiovascular risk [73]. Though we did not show a significant effect on LDL levels for ketone supplements, future chronic feeding studies will investigate the effects of ketone supplementation on lipidomic profile and LDL particle type and size.
Hello! We have a section on this in our weight loss plateau post—it’s fine to use them, but be careful if you have any digestive issues as a result of them, and make sure they’re not interfering with your weight loss goals. “In addition to potentially contributing too many calories, sources of fat like coconut oil (including concentrated supplements) contain medium chain triglycerides (MCT). These cannot be stored in body fat, meaning that whatever is consumed has to be promptly burned for energy. So you’re adding these sources on top of your dietary fat consumption for satiety, this type of fat takes priority. Often times people fall into the trap of adding supplements of coconut oil or straight up MCT oil and it ends up adding extra calories. Yes, it may raise your ketones a bit, but the overall cost may impact your weight loss.”
Participants refrained from alcohol and caffeine for 24 h prior to each visit AND were asked to consume a similar meal the night before each visit. All studies were carried out at the University of Oxford Human Physiology Laboratories and started at 0800 h following an overnight (>8 h) fast, with a minimum of 72 h between visits. Visit order was randomized prior to commencement by an administrative investigator using a pseudo-random number generator to produce a list of combinations of visit order, which were then allocated based on order of enrolment by a different investigator.
So if you really want to jump start ketosis, do what the prehistoric humans did; don’t eat for 3 to 5 days. Keep the water bottle and multivitamins close and go on a strict fast. It might seem extreme and to a degree it is, but starving yourself will put you into ketosis. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. And it will cause you to lapse into a ketogenic state faster than if you tried to do so by manipulating the foods you eat (replacing carbs with fats). Once starvation has caused your body to transition to a ketogenic state, you can begin to introduce your low carb, high fat keto-friendly foods.
Appetite suppression: Appetite was measured in 10 males and 5 females after consuming a ketone ester (KE) or a dextrose (DEXT) drink . Desire to eat and perception of hunger dropped after both drinks, but the KE was 50% more effective for 1.5-4hrs. Insulin levels rose for both drinks but were 3x less with the KE drink after 30mins (Fig 2). The hunger hormone, ghrelin, was significantly lower between 2 to 4 hours after drinking the KE (Fig 2). In conclusion Ketone esters delay the onset of hunger and lower the desire to eat. 8
Also, this experiement should be of interest. Two men followed a ‘traditional Eskimo’ diet for 1 year. After the year eating a low carb high fat diet, it was found that the men had a diminished tolerance to carbohydrates, something that did not occur in Eskimos eating the same diet. It took the mean nearly a month of eating a ‘normal diet’ before their glucose tolerance returned to baseline. 
Consuming exogenous ketones isn't the same as following a ketogenic diet–the ketones in the blood haven't been naturally produced by the breakdown of fat stores. However, scientists believe many of the health benefits of the keto diet and fasting (aside from weight loss) are triggered by ketones. Therefore, raising ketone levels through either endogenous or exogenous ketosis could help to improve health and performance by:
I started this website because it was hard to find trustworthy, evidence-based information about the ketogenic diet. Information that was published and peer reviewed by respected scientific journals. After years of research, I'm sure you'll achieve great results in a healthy way following my advice. I do my best to translate scientific research jargon into plain English. Remember, it's always a good idea to consult a doctor before starting a new diet!
I bought this because I didn't want to be sucked into an autoshipment for a ketone supplement like KetoOS, which is HOT right now. I did the comparison on the ingredient list between this product and KetoOS and they are quite similar. I think one of the big differences is that KetoOS has the option of caffeinated or non-caffeinated powders. For the cost and the free shipping (I'm a Prime member), it's something I could easily fit into my budget, rather than the $114 canister you'd get with KetoOS.
Not everything is perfect with Ketōnd, so there are a few things you should know. One is that it is extremely powerful. The company is pretty adamant about taking the correct dosage - and they are right. This isn't your typical ketone supplement. I'd recommend starting off at half a scoop, even if you are used to taking a different ketone supplement. Odds are if you have your product was underdosed. So, it’s kind of a pain to remember all the time, but once you feel good with the half serving then you can work your way up to a full scoop. If you think it is too strong for you – just take one serving a day, not two, and you will be okay.
Not everything is perfect with Ketōnd, so there are a few things you should know. One is that it is extremely powerful. The company is pretty adamant about taking the correct dosage - and they are right. This isn't your typical ketone supplement. I'd recommend starting off at half a scoop, even if you are used to taking a different ketone supplement. Odds are if you have your product was underdosed. So, it’s kind of a pain to remember all the time, but once you feel good with the half serving then you can work your way up to a full scoop. If you think it is too strong for you – just take one serving a day, not two, and you will be okay.
and by the way! the product you’re marketing has way too much salt – it will negate the true, natural process of any keto diet. salt will make you retain water, which is exactly what you don’t want to do, if you ever really want to lose weight! and if higher than normal blood pressure is your goal, enjoy responsibly! in fact, if you lower your overall salt intake, you will shed much more water weight in the first weeks, as mentioned elsewhere.. one of the secret cheats to get you going. drinking plenty of water and frequent urination will keep you properly hydrated – just be aware when testing with urine strips, too much water will give you a lower reading. stay hydrated, stay healthy – have fun losing the weight!

BS, KC, and PC designed the research studies. BS, PC, RE, SM, and PS carried out the studies. SH provided the gas analyser used in the study on behalf of NTT DOCOMO Inc. BS, MS, and SM analyzed the data and performed statistical analysis in collaboration with JM. BS wrote the paper with help from KC, PC, and OF. KC had primary responsibility for final content. All authors read and approved the final manuscript.

Lastly, EK products in general ​are usually in the form of salts, which is why they are referred to as BHB Salts. The BHB ketones are bound to common salts such as sodium​, calcium, magnesium and potassium​ to improve absorption rate. These salts are also the core electrolytes your body needs to help you avoid feeling mentally drained and physically lousy during the keto-flu transition period.


Interestingly, poly-BOHB has recently been reported to have important roles in mammalian mitochondrial membranes, cell membrane calcium channels, and in exotic functions like protein folding (Dedkova 2014). It exists in a variety of chain lengths, ranging from short to very long. It is not clear if humans can digest and use poly-BOHB consumed in the diet, but in animals, poly-BOHB appears to have probiotic and bowel protective functions. This is a rapidly evolving topic that we will be watching closely.
Been using yur stuff for the last week and tyere is absolutely no change in the amount of ketones based on the ketone strips i use to monitor ketone levels. I use another product as well and switched back and have sustained higher levels of ketones most of the day. Is there a reason that your product doesnot produce the results based on the strip test? I am a larger guy, 260 possibly need more? I have 2 tubs to go through and am not overly optimistic about whats going on.
At the same time, research suggests that getting as much of your calcium from your diet, rather than supplements is a good idea. For instance, there is some evidence that the calcium intake from food is better for bone mineral density than the same calcium intake from supplements[17]. Foods that are high in calcium include dairy, leafy green vegetables, fish with edible bones, tofu made with calcium sulfate, and calcium-fortified foods and beverages.

Comments are welcomed and encouraged. The purpose of comments on our site is to expand knowledge, engage in thoughtful discussion, and learn more from readers. Criticism and skepticism can be far more useful than praise and unflinching belief. There’s an art and science to critical thinking and how to conduct yourself. There’s a multitude of fallacious appeals we could spell out, but a good rule of thumb is not to attack the person, attack the ideas. Don’t look for the flaws in the person, look for the flaws in the hypothesis. Let’s keep the brawling to movies depicting minor league hockey teams and political “news” shows. Thank you for adding to the discussion.

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